“The church is the most powerful thing on Earth”
“What church do you go to?”
“We went to church on Sunday”
“Welcome to the house of God today”
“Bring them to church and they will get saved”
“Church leaders are the most important thing in building the church”
“We need to be relevant to our culture to effectively build the church”
“I am passionate about the church”
“Bring your offering so we can build the house of God”These are just a few of the statements that we hear over and over again but have you ever wondered if they are correct, are they scriptural?
About three years ago the Lord started bringing my attention to various things I have learned over the nearly 30 years of ministry. It all started when He spoke to me with such a force it was almost audible in a conference I was attending on church leadership. He said very clearly “beware of socio humanistic philosophy” – I said “what on earth is that”, I didn’t have a clue what that meant. He then continued showing me over the next half an hour all what was going on in the ‘church’ and then confirmed it by giving me a living example that I clearly recognized. I went home from the conference and did a Google search on the term ‘socio humanistic philosophy’ and added the word ‘Christian’ to it. I was amazed at what I read and began to understand what the Lord had shown me. Basically that the church was rampant with this philosophy. (I will go into this later in this publication) Over the last three years he has expounded on that revelation and this study is the result of everything the Lord has shown Jeannette and myself.
Just to back up a little. The Lord spoke very clearly to me 4 years ago to go to and live in a small town in New Zealand called Ashburton from our Home in Brisbane, Australia. For three and a half years we questioned the Lord as to why He took us there because as far as our ministry is concerned it died. We had been ministering there for many, many years prior to moving there. What was once a place where we had seen God do incredible miracles and His presence manifest in amazing ways turned into a place of dry bones for us.
We now understand that the Lord took us physically out of the ‘system’ of the ‘church’ we were so actively involved in by taking us to that small country town and has been getting the ‘system’ out of us ever since.
I started seeing things differently and for some reason I started cringing at the statements like the above when I said them or when I heard someone else say them. It got worse the more I heard and it seemed like my spirit was tuned into picking up those sort of things. It got extremely bad when I heard a whole sermon by one of Australia’s most well known preachers. He spoke about how great the church is, how powerful it is and how much of a privilege it is to serve in the house. My spirit squirmed and then I started thinking “hold on – he hasn’t even mentioned the Lord, God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit once through the whole sermon and I started thinking things like ‘the church isn’t the most powerful thing on Earth – the Holy Spirit is’ and questioning whether the church is in actual fact the House of God. Even is the church really the church Jesus talked about and is building on Earth today.
I recalled hearing the head of a Pentecostal movement in New Zealand state that it wasn’t the Holy Ghost that built churches it was good leadership. That was his opening statement as he opened a new church building in a particular town. I felt like screaming out “what did you just say” – I couldn’t believe what I just heard. Yet there were hundreds of people there just swallowing it all up. I went home thinking ‘what is wrong – what is going on’.
Another pastor I heard preach recently said this as his opening statement. He said “I love the church, I am so passionate about the church, the church is the most powerful, influential force on Earth. I am so excited about the church again”. My spirit immediately squirmed and I thought ‘I know exactly where you have been’ – I discovered that this was his first message after returning from a conference hosted by the first preacher I mentioned here.
I thought ‘why aren’t you passionate, excited and in love with Jesus’. Why have you been stirred up with a passion for the church – is this scriptural? Shouldn’t you be stirred in your relationship with Jesus?
Again another example – I was watching Australian Idol where they interviewed one of the contestants and during the whole segment he talked about how the church saved him from his old life – how good his life has been since he went to church. He went on about the church this and the church that and I thought what about Jesus! – he never mentioned Him, God, the Lord, the Holy Spirit once, just how great the church was.
Now you may be thinking (as I have questioned myself) that I’m just getting critical. But you see this guy may not have really understood what he was saying – he was probably taught this by the idol that has crept into the church called ‘the church’.
Yet another example of a pastor preaching a message on evangelism. Except he wasn’t telling the people to go out on the streets and bring people to Jesus he said go out onto the streets and bring them to church so that they can get saved. The whole message was along those lines. Can you see the subtlety?
Now I think that if I talked with any of these people I have used as an example they would most likely say something like “oh yes, of course I mean Jesus. Isn’t the church the body of Christ anyway?” or “aren’t you playing semantics – the church and Jesus are the same, He is the head, we are the body”
But what this really proves is that there is overall a fundamental misunderstanding of what the church is. There is a huge error in our theology. There are whole movements preaching error that sounds like its scriptural but are in fact preaching about an idol called the church.
An idol called the ‘church’
What do I mean by ‘an idol’?
The definition of an idol:-
"Dear children, keep yourselves from idols." 1 John 5:21
Idolatry is a sin very deeply rooted in the human heart. We need not go very far to find of this the most convincing proofs. Besides the experience of every age and every climate, we find it where we would least expect it—the prevailing sin of a people who had the greatest possible proofs of its wickedness and folly, and the strongest evidences of the being, greatness, and power of God.
It amazes us sometimes in reading the history of God's ancient people, as recorded in the inspired page, that, after such wondrous and repeated displays of his presence, glory, and majesty, they should again and again bow down before stocks and stones. That those who had witnessed all the plagues of Egypt had passed through the Red Sea by an explicit miracle, were daily living on manna that fell from heaven and water that gushed out of the rock, who had but to look upward by day to behold the pillar of the cloud, and by night the pillar of fire to manifest the presence of Jehovah in their midst—that this people, because Moses delayed coming down from the Mount, should fall down before a golden calf, and say, "These are your gods, O Israel, which brought you up out of the land of Egypt," does indeed strike our minds with astonishment.
And that this sin should break forth in them again and again through their whole history down to the period of the Babylonish captivity, in spite of all the warnings of their prophets, all the terrible judgments of God, all their repeated captivities, and, what would be far more likely to cure it, all their repeated deliverances, does indeed show, if other proof were lacking, that it is a disease deeply rooted in the very constitution of fallen man.
If this be the case, unless human nature has undergone a change, of which neither scripture nor experience affords any evidence, the disease must be in the heart of man now as much as ever; and if it exists it must manifest itself, for a constitutional malady can no more be in the soul and not show itself, than there can be a sickness in the body without evident symptoms of illness.
It is true that the disease does not break out exactly in the same form. It is true that golden calves are not now worshiped, at least the calf is not, if the gold be, nor do Protestants adore images of wood, brass, or stone. But that rank; property, fashion, honor, the opinion of the world, with everything which feeds the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, are as much idolized now as Baal and Moloch were once in Judea, and Juggernaut now is in the plains of Hindostan, is true beyond all contradiction.
But what is idolatry? To answer this question, let us ask another.
What is an idol? Is not this the essence of the idea conveyed by the word, that an idol occupies that place in our esteem and affections, in our thoughts, words and ways, in our dependence and reliance, in our worship and devotedness, which is due to God only? Whatever is to us what the Lord alone should be, that is to us an idol.
[J. C. Philpot, October, 1855]
Read full transcript here http://www.gracegems.org/Philpot/Idolatry.htm
Basically an idol is anything that takes the place of God.
“an idol occupies that place in our esteem and affections, in our thoughts, words and ways, in our dependence and reliance, in our worship and devotedness, which is due to God only”
Now with that in mind re-read the statements above and you will see my concern.
I have been putting off this publication as it will most likely offend some, anger some and most likely cut off the last dangling piece of ‘our’ ministry skin pumping life into what is left of ‘our’ ministry but will also most likely resurrect the ‘Lords’ ministry through us.
Now my statement that encapsulates what I have been saying over the last 10 – 12 years and the revelation I have had over the last 3 -4 years that there is a problem with the church.
I now realize that the church (in the west) has become an idol and has in many ways taken the place of God and that we have been preaching about the idol called the church believing we really mean Jesus.
This is actually deception that can only be broken by revelation.
The next few chapters will reveal scripturally / theologically
- What the Church is not
- What the Church is
- Church Belief systems
- How to deal with the idol
- How will we do church now
- Changing mindsets
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Comments
Could you take me off the mailing list please. I love the people of God even though they may not be perfect.
Someone once said “stop just going to church - and be the church”
There is a whole city in the USA recently just done that – all the ‘churches’ in the city closed their doors for a Sunday and told the people to go out and be the Church.
I am sorry you think I am deluded and off the rails. Do you think those churches in the USA are also deluded or do you think maybe God is saying something to ‘His Church’.
I also have to question whether you read the whole article because as I mentioned that further studies will come
• What the Church is not
• What the Church is
• Church Belief systems
• How to deal with the idol
• How will we do church now
• Changing mindsets
So I am sorry you will not stick around to read the full picture of what I am saying.
keep preaching it
I agree.
Let's get back to loving Jesus.
Thank you for "An Idol called the Church". It has helped gell some thinking for me, I look forward to reading the next few parts.
Currently I am reading a book called "Will the Real Church Stand Up" written by Michael Fewson of Living Way Christian Church in Pearth - this echos some of what you are seeing/hearing and saying.
May God continue to bless you bothin your work for Him.
As a cross-cultural missionary of 26 years I’ve enjoyed (and continue to enjoy) all these waves (many, if not all- of them, ‘pendulum balances’ in order to correct extremes) but find, in the midst of it all, I have to continually fight to bring myself (and those placed under my care) back to the ABC’s of being a disciple of Jesus: do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with our God. The European leaders of the mission that I belong to are meeting next week in order to look at some of these issues including considering the possibility that once-cherished terms like “Christian”, “missions”, “missionary” and “church planting” have become stumbling blocks for today’s cross-cultural disciple-makers.
Again, thank you for taking the time to write the “An idol called the church” article. I look forward to reading the subsequent parts.
I know what this means for me but what does it mean for a ministry like yours that is so reliant on "the church" inviting you in to preach????
I am sure God is trying to re shape His people.
Thank you so much for sharing, this really resonated with me, I've already shared it with a few of my fellow travellers and they too were touched and inspired to deeper thought on it. God bless you and your family, and, whatever ministry Jesus puts in your hands.
Yes thats true. Someone said recently "we should stop just going to church and be the Church."
Blessings
That's where the gathering of good folks can be found on a weekly basis.
Yes that is one area the Lord has dealt with me as an itinerate minister - to stop playing the game. I have stopped ringing for meetings, stopped promoting our ministry by 'I'm available' leaflets and building 'relationships' with pastors [to get meetings] etc etc for over three years. to be honest the game ministry plays makes me sick.
If God cant speak to a pastor to get us to minister then I'm not interested in playing the game.
It is also why God has made us financially independent so that we dont 'need' meetings to supply our needs.
I do relate to other ministers, in fact other ministers actually confide in me often (statement of fact not pride) and the whole financial security issue the Lord has been building into our life and ministry is making a lot of sense now because many people in the system we were in (and I am talking purely about the idol called the church - not the Church of the Lord) would not invite us to speak against their idol. Also it allows us to go to places that could not afford us to go. It also stops us 'ministering' because we need to put food on the table.
About doing this on my own - I am encouraged by ALL the Lord is doing around the Earth that confirms I am not on my own preaching my own little wheelbarrow. Whole churches are getting this revelation. In the USA recently a whole city of churches shut their doors one sunday and told the people to go and BE the Church.
I think God is actually saying something through prophetic voices around the Earth.
Thanks for your concern about rejecting the real - I believe I have a firm grasp on the real and will be sharing that in upcoming articles.
Thanks for taking the time to write your comments.
Many blessings
Ian
Don't stop preaching..this is great stuff!
Yes the Lord showed me a year or so ago about finding God outside the walls of Church.
View video on home page (up the top)
We need to be the Church. Not just go to a church.
more about that in future publications.
blessings
Ian
I am sorry but your statement is 'Exactly' what I am talking about.
Quoting Ross:
Sorry but we 'are' the Church - we dont attend one. This is exactly where our theology fails because we dont attend a church but we can assemble as the church to worship.
Quoting Ross:
Maybe you have not heard of a huge revival of souls being saved in places like China where these "deceived individuals" are actually part of the body and working outside the walls of a western church structure
Quoting Ross:
sorry mate but again we dont "get a church" - when someone is born again they become part of the body of Christ - the church - they may assemble as the church in a home, park or even a designated public building but no where should we call that building 'the church' - please stay tuned to upcoming articles of what the church is as I believe we desperately need correct theology.
Thanks for your input
Ian
Thanks for your comments
Ian
Best regards and blessings
You are a true man of God. God has given you this revelation for the Body of Christ. Many of us have struggled with these issues for many years also.
We have taught all our children the word of God from very young ages. Our eldest daughter (23 yrs), sings in a large AOG church on sundays etc.
One day she came home excited, and said, she had just witness to a non christian friend for hours, and that her friend said she may come to church with our daughter.
I asked what did she say to her? Our daughter said, she told her friend all about the church! How great the music is, how nice (most of) the people are, how cool the church building is etc...
My wife Kim and myself where shocked! This is not what we taught our family. I said to her witnessing is all about Jesus, His work on the cross etc... I ask her, did she remember what we taught her? She said, she forgot. She said, she mainly listens to her pastor now.
He continually cast his church vision, like fishermen casting their fishing nets. The most important thing to many of the 700 people in this church, is this pastor's vision.
I've met her pastor, he's young, very strong willed. I came away not feeling very good, I thought he'd destroy anything, or anyone, who gets in the way of his vision!
However, this church has a good name in the community.
May we all have ears to hear and eyes to see what the Spirit is saying to the Church of the Lord.
However, there is one part that I think was uncalled for because it was, in your own description, presumption. You used the phrases "may not have" and "probably" but still went on to elaborate. This kind of conjecture tends to discredit the rest of the points being made in the article. The passage in question is shown below:
"I was watching Australian Idol where they interviewed one of the contestants and during the whole segment he talked about how the church saved him from his old life - how good his life has been since he went to church. He went on about the church this and the church that and I thought what about Jesus! - he never mentioned Him, God, the Lord, the Holy Spirit once, just how great the church was.
Now you may be thinking (as I have questioned myself) that I'm just getting critical. But you see this guy may not have really understood what he was saying - he was probably taught this by the idol that has crept into the church called 'the church'."
I'm not sure how familiar you are with Australian Idol. Having been in the music industry for nearly 40 years, both on the performing side and the recording production and engineering side, I am keen to watch Idol every week. A few years ago there was the so-called Hillsong vote-stacking 'scandal', highly publicised by rival channel 7. This was because 9 out of the top 10 that year were professing Christians and 6 or 7 of those were associated with AOG churches (not Hillsong specifically). Apart from the fact that it is impossible for outsiders to rig the vote, the whole thing died down because there was no substance in the accusations. However, it did throw an unwanted spotlight on Christian contestants, with judge Kyle Sandilands publicly ordering one contestant to not talk about that God stuff when responding to a question. Subsequent to those times, contestants have visibly been much less free to talk about their convictions. i.e. in spite of your complaint that, "he never mentioned Him, God, the Lord, the Holy Spirit once", I would suspect that the guy would have been edited out even if he had not been told that such phrases were banned from air. So, where might my suspicions come from? Apart from watching the changes in freedom over the last 3 years especially, one of this year's top 24 was the son of a personal friend. There were many worse things happening behind the scenes than just what I've mentioned here.
You have said, "you see this guy may not have really understood what he was saying - he was probably taught this". I suspect that he had been told to not 'Bible-bash' on air (or similar phraseology) and that the young man thought he was doing well in that his past life was able to discussed at all. I also suspect that, having been acutely aware of the changes over the last 6 years, that the word 'church' is harmless enough to be used on air but not the words, 'Jesus', God' or 'Holy Spirit'. My suspicion is also
*not* that the guy was "probably taught this". This is a totally unfounded assumption on your part. I suspect he was just being wise and not causing trouble where it was pointless to do so. If he wins, and if it is Stan, then I am thinking that he will, he will have more opportunity to witness Jesus that he would ever have had under normal circumstances.
I hope you are not offended by my pointing this out to you. I agree with what you are saying overall. I'm not sure whether or not you consider yourself to be in prophetic ministry, but, in either case, it is important to not make a case out of an assumption, or use it as evidence.
What you say 'may be so' but you see we are fighting overall against forces that are trying to stop or at least water down the power of the Gospel - your comments are probably correct (I dont know as I am not in the industry) but they dont negate the fact that the same devil is working in and out of the 'church' trying to as I said stop the power of the Gospel. There really is no power in the 'church' without the gospel, Jesus, The Lord, His word or the Holy Spirit.
Please read Gary's comments above as yet another example.
I believe that God wants to radically change the way church functions, imagine the impact for the Kingdom if each individual believer found out what their role is and was trained, activated and encouraged to function how God intended as in Eph 4
We would see Unity and maturity and revival.
Secularism teaches that God does not exist but as the army of God arises we are going to be able to challange these beliefs world wide
I praise God that His army is rising up. That as Jesus said "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
Thank you for your thoughts on "Church"
I agree with most of it as this is what the sripture says. It's high time to remove the cathedral concept from our mind. Church(Ecclesia )is only the called out ones from the kingdom of satan. They are not suppose to be confined in a building which people meaninglessly calls a church. We are calledout ones to go and involved in the advancement of HIs KIngdom. Jesus taught us to pray for His Kingom to come. The Spirit of God is doing this through out the world.
Church even can gather under the shade of a tree. I had the privilege to speak to the church under the shade of the tree with out confined to four walls. I still remember, the people outside the church watched us and heard the gospel and became a part of the church (and notpart of a building. We need, I suppose another reformation to bring out people from unsriptural ideas about church and from cleargy/laity ideas.
Blessings !!!
Ps George Samuel
Always wanting to be a helper brother...
Brian
It is the time of reformation of all things in the life of the believers and your teaching and hard work is part of that investment in the true principles of the Kingdom advance in the earth.
It is truly the time to depart from the false and join the true assembly of God's people which will result in joining to the HEAD, the Christ.
I do commend you and thank you.
Building together accurately,
Forcefully advancing ,
And Finishing all.
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