From part 1 & 2 I have been accused of being judgmental – hmm but ironically aren’t the people judging me being judgemental.
I have been accused of being critical - aren’t the people criticizing me being critical.
Anyhow, I believe exposing an idol is not judgemental nor critical – the bible is full of accounts where wrong is dealt with. God used many different ways including the Apostles & Prophets to ‘expose and correct’. This was neither judgemental nor critical although many times judgment was bought into the situation.
I have been accused of causing division in the body.
Well many are accused of causing division because they preach about for example tongues, or full emersion baptism or even divine healing – does that mean we stop preaching about these things because it causes division. Ooops too late, many have stopped. Many Pentecostal ‘churches’ (and I use that in the correct term) don’t talk about or even use tongues in public ‘church’ services. Many that were full on Spirit filled now don’t even have alter calls or pray for the spiritual needs of people. Many don’t even have communion (or have it at the door as you leave) many don’t worship, just sing songs – what was once a Spirit filled assembly of believers is little more than a club that people ‘attend’ – they sing 3 fast songs, 3 slow songs, take up an offering, have a lifestyle encouragement message and then go to the café.
Come on preachers – I encourage you to preach the Gospel in power instead of being conformed to the image of the idol called the church. That idol is robbing you of the power of the Holy Spirit. It is robbing souls (because many are being converted to churchianty instead of Christianity.) it is robbing your relationship with God. I have talked with pastor after pastor who has said they need a real relationship with God but the idol they serve is robbing them. Person after person who say they need a better relationship with God – The idol called the church is robbing them. Sapping the life out of them and replacing relationship with busyness serving the idol instead of serving the Lord and each other.
Pastors have said to me time and time again that they just can’t get the people ‘turned onto God’ – that is because the idol is sapping them dry. They are not connected to the Vine that gives life. Come on – if they were truly connected to the Vine they would produce fruit - its unstoppable. If they are connected to the idol – there is no fruit, no life, just passive belief in Jesus.
I have had many encouraging emails and comments again (with thanks) but also many negative emails (understandably).
What I am not saying is that the ‘true assembly’ – ‘the assembly of believers’ – ‘the body of Christ’ – ‘the true church’ is an idol. What I am saying is that there is an idol – the idols name is called ‘the church’ – if you are confused by this that’s because the enemy is the author of confusion. This is also why I went to scripture in Part two to see exactly what it says. The word brings clarity not confusion. Please read the scriptures to find what I have taught is true. Acts 17:11
To re-cap:-
The Greek word ekklesia simply means assembly. NOT church. It is used for any assembly whether civic, governmental or religious. To translate ekklesia to church is incorrect. If it were correct then we would have a civic church, a government church, a school church, a sporting church etc etc. Which is silly.
The word ekklesia that many translations incorrectly translate to ‘church’ (many do actually translate it correctly as ‘assembly’) has nothing to do with what the word church means today.
You will not find the western church in the bible. If you can, please show me – use the comment facility we have set up to discuss this - if what I am saying is wrong I am open, please show me in scripture.
So after analysing the foundation I will continue with what a church is not.
• A Church is not a building.
Nowhere in the Bible is the place where Christians meet referred to as a "church", nowhere.
Never does ekklesia refer to a building in which people gathered, for worship or for any other purpose, Never.
Please go over those statements again and again and let it sink in.
Now most people would correctly say something like “church is all about people, not a building” yet their mindset is all about a building. Statements like “I went to church”, “I am going to church”, “what church do you go to”, “I am involved in such and such church”, “such and such church is located at....” etc etc proves this confusion. One minister emailed me to share about his shock hearing his daughter ‘witness’ to her friend but all she actually said was “how great the church was”, “how great the music is”, “how ‘cool’ the church building is”. Another preacher told his congregation to “go out and witness and bring them to church to be saved” – Jesus was never mentioned, not once.
Statements from well know preachers saying “how powerful the church is” and how you need to get “involved in church”, “to serve the house of the Lord” (which is not in the New Testament and will be covered later) etc etc only feed the mindset (idol). (I mentioned more examples in part 1)
Getting the vision of the church working and goals set to fulfil the vision of the church, programs in place to build the vision, raising finance to foster the vision is all about the building (or the organization – which we will also look at later) it has little to do genuinely with people, the ekklesia.
If church is not in the bible where do we get the word church from?
Some say it means “Called out ones” which again is incorrect because if it were so we would have called out school assemblies, called out government assemblies etc etc.
The word "church" is defined in most dictionaries as: "A building for public worship, especially Christian worship; the company of all Christians as a spiritual body." This, however, tells us nothing concerning the origin of this word and its original definition, meaning, and usage.
Some theologians have erroneously stated that the word church comes from the Greek "kyrios" which means "lord," and thus "church" is those who belong to the Lord, or references the "Lord’s house." This is not, however, the origin or original meaning of the word "church."
The word church was put in King James' translation because he ordered it put there! Everywhere the Greek word "ekklesia" had any religious reference, the translators substituted the word "church" rather than give an actual translation. King James was the Head of the CHURCH of England and he was going to ensure that his "Church" got some biblical recognition. It was a terrible mistake that has been a source of great error ever since.
The translators of the King James version were forbidden to translate ekklêsia in a proper way; they were under specific orders that the word "church" was to be used instead. James' reasons for demanding the use of certain words in his new translation, were of political nature.
The etymology of the word 'church' – its origin and meaning, and how it came to appear in bible-translations.
The English word "church" came into use in the Middle Ages, some time before the 12th century. The Wycliffe translation (1395) used the word "church" (chirche), but for instance Tyndale (1525) did not. Tyndale properly translated ekklêsia as "congregacion" (sic). And, as was mentioned, he used the word "church" (chirche) only twice, in Acts 14:13 and Acts 19:37 which refer to buildings connected to idol-worship.
The roots of the word "church" are as follows. It comes via the Middle English chirche, from the Old English cirice. And then, it is said that cirice in its turn came from the Greek phrase kyriake oikia (κυριακη οικια, kuriakê oikia) which meant "the Lord's house". Thus, in short, the etymology and evolution of the word "church" is as follows:
kuriakê oikia → cirice → chirche → church
" Professor Smith of Smith’s Dictionary of the Bible states that "church" comes from a word meaning "circle," which is akin to our word "circus." Professor Lipsius (German theologian during the Reformation) also shows that "church" came from "circle." Professor A. F. Fausett of Home Bible Study Dictionary" agrees with Professor Lipsius. The exhaustive ten volume Cyclopaedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature under the word "church" states that:
"It was probably connected with the Latin circus, circulus, and with the Greek kuklos. Lipsius, who was the first to reject the received tradition, was probably right in his suggestion" (Vol. II, p. 322).
Robert Brown’s work The Myth of Kirke" also confirms that "kirke" (church) means "Circle" or "Circular" (p. 22).
Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, under the entry "church" adds this:
"The etymology of this word is generally assumed to be from the Greek, kurious oikos (house of God); but this is most improbable, as the word existed in all the Celtic dialects long before the introduction of the Greek. No doubt the word means ‘a circle.’ The places of worship among the German and Celtic nations were always circular [witness circular Stonehenge, one of the most ancient stone megaliths on earth]. Compare Anglo-Saxon ‘circe,’ a small church, with ‘circol,’ a circle."
In Scotland it is called "Kirk" and in Gemany it is "Kirche," in England it is the word "Circe" (the "c" having a "k" sound).
But according to Brown’s book, "Kirke/Circe" was also the name of a Goddess.
Kirke or Circe was the daughter of the Sun god, who was famous for taming wild animals for her circus. But get ready for this: Circe is pictured holding a golden cup in her hand mixed with wine and drugs, by which she controlled the kings of the world. (Some might go as far as to liken her to the harlot in Revelation)
So as we see here even the word ‘church’ does not have a scriptural source, it was introduced into the Christian assembly for political reasons and some would say still is used for political reasons in many places.
So why would we continue to use the term ‘church’ when it isn’t in the bible?
Why would we use the term when the words roots are not godly?
Why would we use the term to describe something that brings confusion to the saints?
The reason seems obvious - because it is an idol that has power and it needs to be dethroned.
Next time:- What is the true building of believers – what we need to do.
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Comments
You are not being critical or judgmental, merely stating things as they are and holding the body to account as we are supposed to do. It is not a word directed at personalities but one of principal and I don't see any motive here other than LOVE that causes you to speak up. God is love and He is truth and we need to stand on the truth when it is God's truth even if some who have issues with it take offense. Jesus spoke and did many things that caused offense to the religious rulers of His day and He got crucified for it.
If Jesus preached the watered down gospel that many of our organizational churches preached today, He would not have been crucified. He is the truth the life and the way, not a man pleaser and ear tickler.
I would rather someone expose my sin that my soul be saved than to be left to do as I please for fear of offending me.
What you have spoken of is a reality, if someone takes offense then they need to look at what it is that is in them that causes this for there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
I met you in NZ and witnessed a Holy Spirit lead man who spoke things of God for God and I don't see that that has changed.
God bless you, strengthen you and give you boldness and wisdom.
many blessings
Ian
I think the leaders AND the people could take responsibility for this. There are many people who have been fairly willing participants in what we in NZ class as 'church'.
I know there are many who hunger for something real though too. The early church wasn't concerned with running a 'show' that looked good. It was a community, with all the quirks that includes. And it had real power. We talk about power a lot, but I don't know that we have much.
God Bless
Russell Scott Pastor
Gore NZ
Blessings,
Stan.
We have many such 'idols' in South Africa.Please continue with the revelations the Lord has given you.Be encouraged you are being led by Holy Spirit. Bless you and your family
Blessings,
Lindsay
A good read especially with the integration with the Greek! I can see the TNIV coming out. Great to see. I look forward to seeing you again at church.
Blessing through Him,
Brother Brian
Thanks for your article. Some good points! I think that the issues facing the Pentecostal church are related to individuals theological positions on missiology, soteriology and ecclesiology. Meaning how one sees the 'mission of the church', how one interprets Salvation and how we form/structure church. Obviously, you are dealing with the latter. All are huge and amazing theological areas which deserve time to delve into but they are areas which require continual and deep reflection. At the end of the day if this pulling down of the idol brings people closer to the 'cross of Christ' and Christ himself then all power to you! Thanks for your thoughts and reflections...
Caleb
Many many blessings
Ian
You are saying that the Greek word ekklesia does not mean church, and is miss-translated. The Strong’s reference (1577) to the word church uses both words: assembly and church. This reference is saying they are both the same. The same reference mentions “a calling out”. I have trusted the Strong’s Concordance for many years, but here you are saying it is incorrect? Maybe you should take your Greek translation issues up with them as many pastors rely on its accuracy.
The church can be an idol, but so can an assembly. Every group of Christians who assemble and form an organizational structure run the risk of worshipping the institution rather than the Lord.
So, Ian, what’s your point? The vast majority of ministers serve Jesus from a pure heart motive, putting up with the flaws in their organization structure and hierarchy. Why attack them? Jesus wrote letters to the churches in the book of Revelation bringing correction and encouragement. Don’t you trust that He can still do this?
Best leave it alone and get back to the task you were called to…..
"You are saying that the Greek word ekklesia does not mean church, and is miss-translated. The Strong's reference (1577) to the word church uses both words: assembly and church. This reference is saying they are both the same."
[Ian Say's] Yes I am saying that & yes Strong's does say both Assembly & Church.
"The same reference mentions "a calling out". I have trusted the Strong's Concordance for many years, but here you are saying it is incorrect? Maybe you should take your Greek translation issues up with them as many pastors rely on its accuracy."
[Ian Say's] May I humbly suggest rather, that those that use Strong's, use it correctly. The instructions on how to use Strong's say that the text before the :- is the meaning of the word. Text after the :- is how the King James Version translated it. (not what the word means).
It is true Strong's does say a 'calling out' because ekklesia comes from two other words (1537 & 2564) - what I said was "Some say it means "Called out ones" which again is incorrect because if it were so we would have called out school assemblies, called out government assemblies etc etc." - many have used this to differentiate between a common assembly and a Christian assembly saying the Christian assembly are the called out ones called the church - this is incorrect. If ekklessia means a called out assembly translated church then we would have a 'called out school church' or a 'called out government church' etc etc. which is obviously incorrect so how can we say it is then correct when we use it to describe the body of Christ. Please re-read the actual root of the word church. Do a Google search "what does the word church mean', read different theological books and discover what I and many others have.
"The church can be an idol, but so can an assembly."
[Ian Say's] May I correct you - I never said the church is an idol. I said an idol called the church. It is the idol that God is exposing. You are correct in saying that an assembly could also be an idol but I am talking about a present idol called the church rather than something that doesn't exist at present - an idol called an assembly. But the same could happen when people sin and it is not dealt with then the door would be open to demonic strongholds.
"Every group of Christians who assemble and form an organizational structure run the risk of worshipping the institution rather than the Lord."
[Ian Say's] Correct. Are you saying we don't correct the error just because it might happen again though?? I believe we need to see the assembly of believers freed from this idol not to set up another organizational structure because the assembly of believers are an organism rather than an organization, a body rather than an institution.
"So, Ian, what's your point?"
[Ian Say's] Er - there is an idol that is being exposed and will be de-throned.
"The vast majority of ministers serve Jesus from a pure heart motive, putting up with the flaws in their organization structure and hierarchy. Why attack them?"
[Ian Say's] Sorry if you feel I am attacking ministers. I feel I am rebuking those that are compromising, warning those that don't see and giving strength to those that are fighting the battle rather than 'going with the flow'. I have had many, many ministers thank me for helping them - they don't feel attacked. Maybe those that feel attacked are those that will actually loose something or maybe they are actually defending the idol.
"Jesus wrote letters to the churches in the book of Revelation bringing correction and encouragement. Don't you trust that He can still do this?"
[Ian Say's] so does that mean you are going to stop preaching the word to your congregation bringing correction and encouragement? Or do you believe like me that Jesus uses preachers to speak His word.
"Best leave it alone and get back to the task you were called to….."
[Ian Say's] Thanks for your advise - what do you believe I am called to???
Many blessings
Ian
"Out of the system into God".........
The church is a body of called out people whom God has made Kings and Priests unto Him through the new birth. We have been given the power and the right to be called Gods sons. All that Adam lost we have gained back through the blood covenant. Pastors need to be teaching about our relationship with God and who we are in Him. Cols states we are the temple of God in which He dwells, what could be clearer than that.
In fact it states the God Head bodily dwells in us, how great is that. Preach it brother, I'm with you all the way to glory.
Bless You
Ian
A message several years ago(www-address below)mentioned RELIGION as putting heavy obligations and rewarding only partial protection. In that message, Moab represented "religion"; you call it "church". Yet it seems to be the same speech.
Jesus is obviously insisting with offering Australia HIS WAY.
http://angeltarnowski.com.ar/ENGLISH/ARTICLES/ARTICLES%20Dig%20Ditches%20in%20this%20Valley.html
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