Before we get to this teaching:-
I have been discussing an idol called the church. Sometimes I feel I am like a flea trying to bring down an Elephant. That the idol is too big, it has been around for centuries and who am I to tackle it. I am encouraged by those that are doing likewise and those who are seeing the idol for what it is and seeking to get from under its deceptive power and alas I am saddened by some of my ‘friends in ministry’ that have vehemently opposed me and actively sided with the idol they serve.
I could have used the term ‘an idol called religion’ and few would have objected because they don’t consider themselves ‘religious’– the religious ones are of course ‘everyone else’. (Religious in the negative sense of the word). I could have used the term ‘an idol called Catholicism’ and everyone outside the Catholic church* would say Amen.
*It was in fact the Catholic church that first began using the word ‘church’ for a Christian gathering place or Christian organization. The Catholic bible was written in Latin and is where we find the word ‘church’ used in context to a Christian meeting place. This is why we cant find the equivalent word for ‘church’ in the Greek as it was a term adopted into the Latin catholic bible. Incidentally the reformers, including Luther, were opposed basically to the organizational structure and error of the institution called the ‘church’.
But because the term ‘an idol called the church’ hits at the very roots of what we have been taught to believe, it becomes personal. Because it is personal we can’t fob it off onto someone else, we then have to deal with it ourselves. How we deal with it determines what happens in our lives. The choices are clear.
1/ dismiss it without even seeking God as to its truth
2/ seek God about it, pray and study the word.
3/ change
Many have said the term communicates what they have been feeling. Many others have expressed the term in different ways over the years, even as I am learning more, over hundreds of years.
Some are having difficulty understanding the concept because of the old ingrained mindset which continues to cloud the truth.
I need to stress some points, again.
1/ I am not against the body of Christ which is commonly called ‘the church’ – I love the body of Christ and want to serve wherever I can.
2/ I am not against the body of Christ assembling together to worship God in buildings. I love being part of corporate gatherings of worshipers.
3/ But I am against this idol that masquerades as ‘the Church’ – it looks like ‘the church’ but it isn’t. It is very deceptive; it makes people believe in it in so many ways. People vehemently protect it. Many don’t have a true relationship with God because of it. It is treated and acts in the place of God in so many ways. (I have mentioned some and will be continuing revealing more aspects of this idol as time goes by)
I believe one of the most subtle deceptions the idol uses to protect itself is the word ‘church’ itself. I have taught where we got the word from, its original meaning and the correct use of the Greek word Ekklesia (that it doesn’t mean church, never has).
Some statements that may help. We don’t ‘go’ to church. We don’t ‘have’ church. We don’t ‘attend’ church. We are not ‘in’ church or ‘out’ of church. We don’t ‘belong’ to a church.
We ‘ARE’ the church. (old terminology) - We ‘ARE’ the assembly of the firstborn.
I have suggested that because of the history and the meaning of the word church, because of the error it represents and the confusion it brings that we simply stop using the word.
While it seems to be a very simple suggestion it has been met with different reactions like “you are just word playing” or “does it really matter what we call it” or even spiritualized comments like “the Lord knows what I mean when I say church”. What these comments actually do is dismiss the whole revelation about the idol instead of engaging it.
What do people mean when they say things like “I love Jesus and I am still going to go to church like I always have done”. Well they are actually dismissing the Love of Jesus from delivering them from the power of the idol. When people don’t want to change they pre-empt their statements with things like “I love Jesus” or “Jesus knows my heart” or “Jesus knows what I mean”.
Is ‘church’ planting scriptural
Is church planting in the Bible? Have you ever researched this without a church planting mindset? Did Jesus say “go and plant churches”? We have attributed the Apostle Paul as the greatest ‘church planter’ – did he actually plant churches? If not what did he actually do? We attribute the gift of Apostle to church planting. Did the Apostles plant churches? If our mindset of church planting is incorrect what do we do to get back to the commission of Jesus?
I have planted numerous churches over around 30 years of ministry, I have trained people to plant churches, I have been involved in a senior leadership role of a church planting movement. When the Lord spoke to me and said “Church planting isn’t in the Bible” I was shocked but then soon realized there are actually no scriptures that talk about church planting.
The great commission is to “go into all the world and make disciples” – not plant churches.
Matt 28:19-20, Mark 16:15-18, Matt 10: etc
There is NO command, NO scripture where Jesus said to go plant churches rather go preach the gospel in the power of the Holy Spirit. It is the body of Christ’s commission to proclaim the gospel and make disciples. As we do this He said I will build my assembly.
It is very simple, if we plant churches the emphasis is on the church. If we proclaim the gospel the emphasis is all about Jesus and people.
If the emphasis is planting a church its all about how we go about this – what musicians do we have, what leaders do we need, what Sunday school class is needed, the building, the advertising, the signs etc. We put an advert in the paper or door knock to let everyone know a new church is in town. What sort of ‘programs’ will we use to attract people. How are we going to be ‘relevant’ to our community? There are many, many programs available from the ‘church’ that successfully used a program that ‘grew’ their church.
We attend church growth seminars, seminars on how to break through to the next level (of the membership role), we do everything we can and strive to get our church filled with bums on seats. We get to 500 members and now we can attend the 500 club to learn how to get to the next level. Church planting in the west is all about the organization, the success of numbers, how well we perform and the achievement of ‘building a church’.
Conversely Jesus said go preach about the Kingdom (not preach how to get a better lifestyle) – make disciples – I will give you power to heal the sick, cast out demon’s – I will validate what you says by signs following. In scripture, the result of this is that those that got saved assembled together for prayer, worship and fellowship. The intent was for people to be saved and delivered from bondage not sign up for church membership.
Have a church planting mindset - the emphasis is on the church.
Have a gospel mindset – the emphasis on people.
You say well the church helps people in lots of ways – yes, so do hundreds of other humanistic organizations helping people in their need while Jesus delivers people out of their bondage.
I am coming from a ‘Pentecostal’ standpoint here (I got saved in a Pentecostal assembly and have ministered mostly in that stream) – let me ask you when was the last time you saw someone delivered from demons in ‘church’. When was the last time you saw a miracle, healing, sign or wonder done in ‘church’. When was the last time you saw someone truly repent and get converted in ‘church’ (not just say a little prayer).
The answer for many, sadly, is many years ago. Why, because the idol has infiltrated the Pentecostal assemblies and shut the power of the gospel down. It has become more about the idol than the gospel of Jesus.
For most churches the program goes like this – 3 fast songs, 3 slow songs, 10 minutes of an offering, 15 minutes of announcements, 20 minutes of a lifestyle sermon, sing a song and go to the coffee shop – and we call that the power of the Gospel designed to save people and set them free – no this is designed to build a club we call church.
Now don’t get mad at me for saying the way it is – you may remember when you went excitedly to meetings where the presence and power of God was so real, now all that is real is the smell of coffee wafting in.
You may be a pastor or leader wondering why God has left – its because you let the idol in.
You may say well I still feel the presence of God in my church – I’m not talking about an emotional kick because the music is good I am talking about the manifest presence of God present and His power being displayed as people earnestly seek Him. (and forget about the coffee)
Did the Apostles, including Paul, plant churches – the short answer is no. When Paul talked about planting he was talking about the Word of God. Again there is NO scripture that talks about church planting. It is a term conjured up probably by the idol to recreate itself. There are a number of scriptures that can be used out of context to prove church planting should be pursued but in context they fail to convince.
This is not an exhaustive study to refute all the scriptures used to promote church planting so please do a study yourself and you will see it very plainly. (see below for scriptural examples used in a church planting manual – note how these can only be interpreted as plating church scriptures if you already have that mindset – they don’t actually indicate church planting rather the spreading of the Gospel.)
You may say well churches were planted and visited by Paul and the other Apostles, elders were set in place, letters written to the churches etc etc.
The truth is that the ‘result of’ Paul and others preaching the Gospel with signs and wonders was that people were saved and delivered. They began to assemble together to encourage one another, break bread, to teach the word etc from house to house, in the temple at the riverside etc. Their motivation was to see the Kingdom established on Earth, not build churches. It wasn’t even in their thinking – their mindset was not to create an organization (Jesus never said I will build my organization) It was to see an organism called the Gospel flow into every corner of the world. As that happened the Apostles and leaders went and strengthened the assemblies.
Rev. Sam Pascoe’s short version of the history of Christianity goes like this:
Christianity started in Palestine as a fellowship;
it moved to Greece and became a philosophy;
it moved to Italy and became an institution;
it moved to Europe and became a culture;
it came to America (the west) and became an enterprise.
Churchianty is not Christianity – churchianity is all about the church, Christianity is all about Christ.
I can define either by one statement – who gets the glory of what is done – the Church or Christ. Who is promoted the church or Christ.
_____________________________________________
Taken from a church planting manual.
Why plant churches
JESUS TOLD US TO DO IT.
Matt. 28:19,20. “Go therefore and make disciples....baptising them...teaching
them to observe all things I have commanded....”
We cannot effectively make disciples and teach them the commands of Christ
outside a church setting.
An evangelistic campaign declares the gospel. It brings people to a place of
decision but it doesn't fully teach them all the things that Jesus commanded
us. This can only be done in a church setting.
When properly understood we see that the Great Commission is specifically a
commission about Church Planting.
2. THE EARLY CHURCH SET THE PRECEDENT.
Throughout the book of Acts, we see that whenever the disciples went about
fulfilling the Great Commission, they planted churches.
Illustrations
i) Acts 8:5-12 Philip plants a church in Samaria.
ii) Acts 9:1-2,19 Believers had planted a church in Damascus.
iii) Acts 9:31 By now there were churches throughout all Judea, Galilee and
Samaria.
iv) Acts 9:32-35 A church was planted in Lydda.
v)Acts 10:24-48 Peter established a Gentile church in Caesarea.
vi) Acts 11:19-26 The persecuted believers planted churches in Phoenicia,
Cyprus and Antioch.
vii) Acts 13:2 - 14:28 Paul's first missionary journey - the biggest single
church planting venture up to that point.
viii) Acts 15:40 - 18:23 Paul's second missionary journey - all to do with
church planting and strengthening existing churches.
ix) Acts 18:24 - 21:25 Paul's third missionary journey - again he planted new
churches and strengthened established ones.
I would have to say that you can poke huge holes in this whole presupposition
I would love to hear about your comments.
Part 6 – Is ‘church’ planting scriptural
Before we get to this teaching:-
I have been discussing an idol called the church. Sometimes I feel I am like a flea trying to bring down an Elephant. That the idol is too big, it has been around for centuries and who am I to tackle it. I am encouraged by those that are doing likewise and those who are seeing the idol for what it is and seeking to get from under its deceptive power and alas I am saddened by some of my ‘friends in ministry’ that have vehemently opposed me and actively sided with the idol they serve.
I could have used the term ‘an idol called religion’ and few would have objected because they don’t consider themselves ‘religious’– the religious ones are of course ‘everyone else’. (Religious in the negative sense of the word). I could have used the term ‘an idol called Catholicism’ and everyone outside the Catholic church* would say Amen.
*It was in fact the Catholic church that first began using the word ‘church’ for a Christian gathering place or Christian organization. The Catholic bible was written in Latin and is where we find the word ‘church’ used in context to a Christian meeting place. This is why we cant find the equivalent word for ‘church’ in the Greek as it was a term adopted into the Latin catholic bible. Incidentally the reformers, including Luther, were opposed basically to the organizational structure and error of the institution called the ‘church’.
But because the term ‘an idol called the church’ hits at the very roots of what we have been taught to believe, it becomes personal. Because it is personal we can’t fob it off onto someone else, we then have to deal with it ourselves. How we deal with it determines what happens in our lives. The choices are clear.
1/ dismiss it without even seeking God as to its truth
2/ seek God about it, pray and study the word.
3/ change
Many have said the term communicates what they have been feeling. Many others have expressed the term in different ways over the years, even as I am learning more, over hundreds of years.
Some are having difficulty understanding the concept because of the old ingrained mindset which continues to cloud the truth.
I need to stress some points, again.
1/ I am not against the body of Christ which is commonly called ‘the church’ – I love the body of Christ and want to serve wherever I can.
2/ I am not against the body of Christ assembling together to worship God in buildings. I love being part of corporate gatherings of worshipers.
3/ But I am against this idol that masquerades as ‘the Church’ – it looks like ‘the church’ but it isn’t. It is very deceptive; it makes people believe in it in so many ways. People vehemently protect it. Many don’t have a true relationship with God because of it. It is treated and acts in the place of God in so many ways. (I have mentioned some and will be continuing revealing more aspects of this idol as time goes by)
I believe one of the most subtle deceptions the idol uses to protect itself is the word ‘church’ itself. I have taught where we got the word from, its original meaning and the correct use of the Greek word Ekklesia (that it doesn’t mean church, never has).
Some statements that may help.‘go’‘have’‘attend’‘in’‘out’‘belong’ We don’t to church. We don’t church. We don’t church. We are not church or of church. We don’t to a church.
We ‘ARE’‘ARE’ the church. (old terminology) - We the assembly of the firstborn.
I have suggested that because of the history and the meaning of the word church, because of the error it represents and the confusion it brings that we simply stop using the word.
While it seems to be a very simple suggestion it has been met with different reactions like “you are just word playing” or “does it really matter what we call it” or even spiritualized comments like “the Lord knows what I mean when I say church”. What these comments actually do is dismiss the whole revelation about the idol instead of engaging it.
What do people mean when they say things like “I love Jesus and I am still going to go to church like I always have done”. Well they are actually dismissing the Love of Jesus from delivering them from the power of the idol. When people don’t want to change they pre-empt their statements with things like “I love Jesus” or “Jesus knows my heart” or “Jesus knows what I mean”.
Is ‘church’ planting scriptural
Is church planting in the Bible? Have you ever researched this without a church planting mindset? Did Jesus say “go and plant churches”? We have attributed the Apostle Paul as the greatest ‘church planter’ – did he actually plant churches? If not what did he actually do? We attribute the gift of Apostle to church planting. Did the Apostles plant churches? If our mindset of church planting is incorrect what do we do to get back to the commission of Jesus?
I have planted numerous churches over around 30 years of ministry, I have trained people to plant churches, I have been involved in a senior leadership role of a church planting movement. When the Lord spoke to me and said “Church planting isn’t in the Bible” I was shocked but then soon realized there are actually no scriptures that talk about church planting.
The great commission is to “go into all the world and make disciples” – not plant churches.
Matt 28:19-20, Mark 16:15-18, Matt 10: etc
There is NO command, NO scripture where Jesus said to go plant churches rather go preach the gospel in the power of the Holy Spirit. It is the body of Christ’s commission to proclaim the gospel and make disciples. As we do this He said I will build my assembly.
It is very simple, if we plant churches the emphasis is on the church. If we proclaim the gospel the emphasis is all about Jesus and people.
If the emphasis is planting a church its all about how we go about this – what musicians do we have, what leaders do we need, what Sunday school class is needed, the building, the advertising, the signs etc. We put an advert in the paper or door knock to let everyone know a new church is in town. What sort of ‘programs’ will we use to attract people. How are we going to be ‘relevant’ to our community? There are many, many programs available from the ‘church’ that successfully used a program that ‘grew’ their church.
We attend church growth seminars, seminars on how to break through to the next level (of the membership role), we do everything we can and strive to get our church filled with bums on seats. We get to 500 members and now we can attend the 500 club to learn how to get to the next level. Church planting in the west is all about the organization, the success of numbers, how well we perform and the achievement of ‘building a church’.
Conversely Jesus said go preach about the Kingdom (not preach how to get a better lifestyle) – make disciples – I will give you power to heal the sick, cast out demon’s – I will validate what you says by signs following. In scripture, the result of this is that those that got saved assembled together for prayer, worship and fellowship. The intent was for people to be saved and delivered from bondage not sign up for church membership.
Have a church planting mindset - the emphasis is on the church.
Have a gospel mindset – the emphasis on people.
You say well the church helps people in lots of ways – yes, so do hundreds of other humanistic organizations helping people in their need while Jesus delivers people out of their bondage.
I am coming from a ‘Pentecostal’ standpoint here (I got saved in a Pentecostal assembly and have ministered mostly in that stream) – let me ask you when was the last time you saw someone delivered from demons in ‘church’. When was the last time you saw a miracle, healing, sign or wonder done in ‘church’. When was the last time you saw someone truly repent and get converted in ‘church’ (not just say a little prayer).
The answer for many, sadly, is many years ago. Why, because the idol has infiltrated the Pentecostal assemblies and shut the power of the gospel down. It has become more about the idol than the gospel of Jesus.
For most churches the program goes like this – 3 fast songs, 3 slow songs, 10 minutes of an offering, 15 minutes of announcements, 20 minutes of a lifestyle sermon, sing a song and go to the coffee shop – and we call that the power of the Gospel designed to save people and set them free – no this is designed to build a club we call church.
Now don’t get mad at me for saying the way it is – you may remember when you went excitedly to meetings where the presence and power of God was so real, now all that is real is the smell of coffee wafting in.
You may be a pastor or leader wondering why God has left – its because you let the idol in.
You may say well I still feel the presence of God in my church – I’m not talking about an emotional kick because the music is good I am talking about the manifest presence of God present and His power being displayed as people earnestly seek Him. (and forget about the coffee)
Did the Apostles, including Paul, plant churches – the short answer is no. When Paul talked about planting he was talking about the Word of God. Again there is NO scripture that talks about church planting. It is a term conjured up probably by the idol to recreate itself. There are a number of scriptures that can be used out of context to prove church planting should be pursued but in context they fail to convince.
This is not an exhaustive study to refute all the scriptures used to promote church planting so please do a study yourself and you will see it very plainly. (see below for scriptural examples used in a church planting manual – note how these can only be interpreted as plating church scriptures if you already have that mindset – they don’t actually indicate church planting rather the spreading of the Gospel.)
You may say well churches were planted and visited by Paul and the other Apostles, elders were set in place, letters written to the churches etc etc.
The truth is that the ‘result of’ Paul and others preaching the Gospel with signs and wonders was that people were saved and delivered. They began to assemble together to encourage one another, break bread, to teach the word etc from house to house, in the temple at the riverside etc. Their motivation was to see the Kingdom established on Earth, not build churches. It wasn’t even in their thinking – their mindset was not to create an organization (Jesus never said I will build my organization) It was to see an organism called the Gospel flow into every corner of the world. As that happened the Apostles and leaders went and strengthened the assemblies.
Rev. Sam Pascoe’s short version of the history of Christianity goes like this:
Christianity started in Palestine as a fellowship;
it moved to Greece and became a philosophy;
it moved to Italy and became an institution;
it moved to Europe and became a culture;
it came to America (the west) and became an enterprise.
Churchianty is not Christianity – churchianity is all about the church, Christianity is all about Christ.
I can define either by one statement – who gets the glory of what is done – the Church or Christ. Who is promoted the church or Christ.
_____________________________________________
Taken from a church planting manual.
Why plant churches
JESUS TOLD US TO DO IT.
Matt. 28:19,20. “Go therefore and make disciples....baptising them...teaching
them to observe all things I have commanded....”
We cannot effectively make disciples and teach them the commands of Christ
outside a church setting.
An evangelistic campaign declares the gospel. It brings people to a place of
decision but it doesn't fully teach them all the things that Jesus commanded
us. This can only be done in a church setting.
When properly understood we see that the Great Commission is specifically a
commission about Church Planting.
2. THE EARLY CHURCH SET THE PRECEDENT.
Throughout the book of Acts, we see that whenever the disciples went about
fulfilling the Great Commission, they planted churches.
Illustrations
i) Acts 8:5-12 Philip plants a church in Samaria.
ii) Acts 9:1-2,19 Believers had planted a church in Damascus.
iii) Acts 9:31 By now there were churches throughout all Judea, Galilee and
Samaria.
iv) Acts 9:32-35 A church was planted in Lydda.
v)Acts 10:24-48 Peter established a Gentile church in Caesarea.
vi) Acts 11:19-26 The persecuted believers planted churches in Phoenicia,
Cyprus and Antioch.
vii) Acts 13:2 - 14:28 Paul's first missionary journey - the biggest single
church planting venture up to that point.
viii) Acts 15:40 - 18:23 Paul's second missionary journey - all to do with
church planting and strengthening existing churches.
ix) Acts 18:24 - 21:25 Paul's third missionary journey - again he planted new
churches and strengthened established ones.
I would have to say that you can poke huge holes in this whole presupposition
I would love to hear about your comments.
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Are you able to forward them to me please?
Many thanks
Blessings
Evan Jones
Jesus Christ spoke of Himself and that the people would now need to draw water out of a different well, not of Siloam, but of Jesus. And so the day after the feast had ended (See John 8:1), after Jesus had invited the thirsty to drink from Him, He tells the people in John 8:12, Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life."
I have been a strong advocate of all things Pentecostal and I believe in the gifts or Charismata graces of the Holy Spirit, however not only in our church but extensively at least in the circles I have had fellowship much of what we know as Pentecostal has waned and many so called Pentecostal churches are that in name only and not in practice.
I HAVE WRESTLED OVER THIS APPARENT LACK many times and wondered was it something that man has done in order to be contemporary or is it something the Holy Spirit is doing? For this reason I want to clarify one main point I am looking for something greater than what has not been done in the past, something that is lacking in Pentecost which is only an earnest of the Spirit (that is, a down payment), and never the fullness. Paul said it twice 2 Cor. 5:5 and Eph. 1:14.
Being "filled with the Spirit" only means being filled to one's present capacity under Pentecost. Over the past 2,000 years, God has been filling small cups to the brim. Our capacity has been limited, our vision is too small, and all that we have received in the past moves of God has proven to be inadequate to the task of bringing all things under His feet.
Presently we are gathering with some folk in London where we learning to identify and release the 5 fold ministries. It has been a slow process and we are still only scratching the surface of what is potentially available, but believe that as each person is released into their gifting and ministry we will begin to see the fullness of Christ. Already the corporate anointing is increasing along with angelic visitations and we get glimpses of what could eventuate as the Body of Christ grows and matures.
Be encouraged Ian, I sense that what you are crusading for is from the heart of God, to release many choice people who are trapped in the system. Carry on the good work.
Bless you bro
Rex
I was on the leadership team of the first Christian City Church in NZ. We were pushing the boundaries of culture to the maximum and people were responding to something fresh, unreligious. From there I was associate pastor of CCC Manakau and from there I planted planted one in Christchurch with my wife.
This has been over 25 years, watching the contemporary church go from a radical shift out of the existing penticostal religion to something personal, open and relivant. I look now and see contemporary as the religious norm, struggling with the same questions.
For the last 7 years I have been working as a counsellor mainly dealing with struggling Christians. The one common thread that I have found is they want a relationship with God that is life changing, and they want a Christianity that is not condemning or guilt ridden.To look at change in Christianity, I feel that it all starts with the foundation of a personal vibrant connection to God, even above the use of the gifts of the Spirit. Christianity is relationship, if we dont have that we have nothing. How do we turn from idols? We find the real thing.Were do we go to find healthy structure? To the one who is pure and accepting.
I am fortunate to have the luxury of sitting one on one and help people work through their sense of separation from God and help them discover a real connection. Idols are never a match to a loving accepting caring God.
I totally agree with you in every aspect. I have been a missionary with Youth With A Mission in Spain then South America for many years, also have studied missiology.
I have recently read The Shack by W. Paul Young and this book illustrates exactly what you are saying. That it's all about Jesus, and that God works through our systems only because we do and he wants to reach us, but he's not limited to our systems, nor did he make them, man did.
As Christians we so often get so caught up in the system that we forget what it's all about. God wants us to be motivated from the heart through him, and be His ambassadors where ever we are.
Like you said, Jesus called us to make disciples which doesn't mean make to make institutions. If we concentrated more on loving people instead of on positions or systems then we would be more biblical in our working.
I pray that through your ministry many people can be set free from the chains of the system to live their lives in power and be as Christ to others.
but I agree with you, the church? has become commercialized, instead of God wise.
and the true church has been lost sight of.
The true church is people who are born again, walking in the newness of life and victory in the Lord. This comes from relationship with God not church attendance. We are the voice of victory in the land. Shalom
I have just viewed your 2 videos Ian, and part of Jeanettes, plus reading some of your teaching/preaching - I am not certain whether you are still in Ashburton, NZ..?
Firstly I applaud your subject that God can be found outside of the church building, and that we/people are the true Church, the called out ones - spirit filled, born again Christians.
I would like to encourage you by sharing part of my testimony of literally being called out of the 'idol called the church', religion, Babylon - however you want to describe it, and into a place where a personal relationship with Jesus Christ was of the first importance, and yes, this literally happened - God Himself showed me/us that it was time to leave the man structured church system - no more church buildings, just people. So, for the first 3 to 4 years our experience was a 'wilderness' one - shedding a lot of the religious baggage, churchianity, religious jargon, doctrinal practises and humanistic words that I had been filled with over the previous part of my 'churchgoing' life..
Then, I could start to pray again to my Father in Heaven. Then I could start to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ my Saviour and Lord.
Through all this time He never left me, it was I who had lost my first love. In John 14:15-26 Jesus promised that He would send His Holy Spirit to me, and He would never leave me comfortless, so I no longer need to ask the Holy Spirit to fill me - it was a one off event, - as Scripture shows in John 14:17-18. Jesus came to me in His fullness, He is the victory, He is Grace, He is salvation, He was my sin bearer on the cross - the price is paid. John 14:23 says that the triune God will come and make their abode with me - what excitement and awe when another dear brother showed me that scripture. He has been out of the 'system' for some 30 years.
I have since learnt that I need to first learn to be a disciple of Jesus, sit at His feet as Mary did - you pointed that out in your video - as for a ministry, start with one-anothering. Those are not my words, they are those of another dear brother, one who has been 'out' for some 12 years (I think), and has a teaching ministry in the USA for other 'called out' Christians.
God Himself introduced my wife and I to other brothers and sisters in the Lord who had been 'called out' between 20 and 30 years - most of these in New Zealand - some across the world, and although some introductions happened in the early years - the meeting with 'elders' did not happen for some 4 to 5 years after our own 'calling out'.
We have learnt to stop doing - I dont understand the 'being' that you speak of - we have learnt, been taught, not to move, not to speak, not to pray - until Jesus Christ gives us the direction, the words. Then we only do, speak, pray as Jesus shows us, and yes, we do hear the God speaking to us through His Holy Spirit.
So, in answer to your question at the beginning of your video - "what would we do if all the churchs in the nation closed their doors", my wife and I would do what we have been doing for the last 21 years, and so would hundreds, maybe thousands of others - walk and talk with Jesus.
You spoke about after 3 years, you are wondering how long..? A lifetime in human years.. this one on one relationship with Jesus is all He wants from us, He gives us Himself in return. ("Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness...")
Are we aware of His presence..? I thought about this last night and realised that I am certainly aware that when I do wrong/sin, He is not close to me - that is because sin separates me from Jesus. Then I need to repent and restablish the relationship.
I would encourage you both to continue seeking God, seeking that personal relationship that He desires from every single one of us.
In His name and for His glory.. Christ Jesus, King of kings and Lord of lords.
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